ALYSON DUNLOP ADX FILES PREFACE
This author found the creation and publication of this article to be one of the most challenging to complete, to date. One of the virtues in writing is to remain objective while producing the information necessary for the reading audience to understand and assimilate, in clarity. That was my challenge; objectivity. I was faced with some serious re-writing because my friendships and acquaintances with Peter, Alyson, and Nick kept getting in my way. This was completely on me to correct.
I am asking the readers to take a few moments to click on Alyson’s link here to listen to the audio interviews. If you wish, register and enjoy 105 interviews there. It is free. I assure you they will be most interesting from the beginning to the end. I write this to state I do not want to add or take away, in any way, shape, or form the content of these interviews. Thank you, readers for understanding. Of course, thank you all for being here to enjoy this article.
ALYSON DUNLOP
‘Greetings, earthlings’, is Alyson’s standard announcement at the beginning of each interview. She installs a style of great ‘bumper’ music at the beginning, middle, and end or each episode. Alyson Dunlop of ADX Files (Spreaker) with author ‘Enemy Within Radio’ is known for her digital radio program productions since 2015. To date, she has produced 105 radio episodes ranging around one hour each in length. Episodes cover a number of subjects including ufology, magic, exorcisms, and the paranormal to name a few. Interviews are conducted with authors, public figures, and experts in many fields.
This article is published to give these interviews the exposure they deserve. The content and accurate references to current events regarding past, present and future areas of disclosure are discussed here.
Alyson is well known for her interest and work in ufology and the paranormal. Peter Robbins and Nick Pope are international icons in ufology. Read on to discover some of the latest activities and yes, some present, startling to some, revelations in this field. From what has actually happened, from what has not, to the present ‘soft’ disclosure that is underway are all examined and discussed here.
ALYSON DUNLOP – ADX FILES
Alyson Dunlop graduated Glasgow University in 2005 in Classics. She is an experienced cognitive-behavioural hypnotherapist. She has a keen interest in the historical and practical applications of religion, magic, and ufology. As a former English Language teacher, she also studied social psychology, addiction psychology, and religion. In particular, she is drawn to Gnosticism and Liberal Catholicism where she is now involved. More about Alyson Dunlop can be viewed at her website here.
Regarding Alyson’s interest in ufology, she heads SPI Scotland, researching and investigating paranormal experiences, as well as, host and produce her own radio programs, as mentioned, ADX Files. She is also a lecturer and has written many articles regarding a number of subjects about the paranormal.
And, if that is not enough, Alyson also co-organizes the annual Scottish UFO and Paranormal Conference held in Glasgow, Scotland. The 2019 conference is already scheduled for June 22nd.
PETER ROBBINS – EPISODE 99 – ALYSON ADX FILES
PETER ROBBINS PARTIAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY
Peter Robbins is a prominent investigative writer, author and lecturer on UFOs. For over thirty-five years he has spoken on many radio programs and has lectured at many conferences, worldwide. He has appeared on numerous television shows and documentaries. His primary interest has been in ufology where he was an editor for a UFO magazine in New York. His work includes many published articles, columns, as well as, books involving Dr. Wilhelm Reich’s UFO research and, most famously, his work on the three-day UFO occurrences at Rendlesham in the United Kingdom.
More of the interesting history Peter Robbins has encountered and experienced, to date, may be found at his website here. It is a good auto-biographical reference to read, indeed. Further, there is an important post about the Rendlesham Forest Incident of events that occurred years later that is a must read.
INTERVIEW – SEPTEMBER 11 REMEMBERED
In Peter’s radio interview, a number of subjects were discussed. Beginning with the date of the broadcast, September 11th, Peter began with a reflection of where he was in his office when the attack on the World Trade Center occurred in 2001. He recounted some of the events he experienced, as well as, a detailed accounting of Manhattan, its surroundings, population, and areas of interest. It is not a big place, being only 14 miles by about 2.5 miles, at its widest point. He was working a few miles north in ‘mid-town’. While working, a person came by his office and said someone in a plane just hit one tower in the World Trade Center building. To Peter, it didn’t make sense that for one, an errant pilot could do something like this, much less get this close to the business district. Obviously, some people must have been killed in the event. Later, he learned about what had really happened.
Peter remembered the neighborhood before the World Trade Center had been built. In the 1960’s, as an adolescent, he used to ‘hang out’ there for an entire day, at times. In the 1920’s the area was known as ‘radio row’. That is where the radio sales proliferated. It was also the location where amplifiers and speakers were sold. He recounted where he saw 16 acres get re-zoned and the building of the two towers began. He took pictures of the towers as they were being built. Peter mused about the time he was a New York tour guide where he actually watched the trade center be erected, among other activities in the locale. He went in and out of them so many times. Being in the towers and on the roof a number of times, he took the tragedy personally and still does. Like so many other New Yorkers, they felt the towers were theirs. He recounted that the real story may never be known. Peter seriously doubts if we will.
TRAGEDY FOR HUMANITY
Alyson said this was truly one of the worst days in the history of humanity. Peter responded that certainly more people have died from tragedies and attacks, but this is certainly one of the BC’s, AD’s dividing moments in modern history and nothing has been the same since. He noted for his parents’ generation, it was Pearl Harbor. For Peter, as a hero-worshiping little kid, it was the murder of John F. Kennedy. He said that as a serious student of that conspiracy; it was a ‘coup d’etat’ and nothing in American history has been the same since.
Peter mentioned to Alyson that although, he is not a conspiracist. By definition of the word it is roughly two or more people plotting something, usually nefarious in private. History is basically defined by and littered with such conspiracies. So, Peter continues, the tragedy of modern times, it has become an infection in the body politic. There was a time not too long ago people would raise their eyebrows if one claimed that something was an ‘inside’ job. And now, led by the President of the United States, anything goes; you can say anything and there will always be people who will believe it. More and more, a popular culture will follow it, and more and more major media will be willing to let it slide by, unquestioningly. He stated we do live in interesting times and that it is not something in a positive way. Alyson quipped that Peter means it in a kind of ‘Chinese curse’ kind of way.
FROM THE ASHES COMES THE PHOENIX
When Alyson mentioned a friend’s birthday on social media, Peter said he was going through some of the recounts from his friends about what they were doing on 9/11. One of the accounts was one of his friends saying on that day his wife’s water broke and a child was born. His friend stated that this day was one of the happiest days of his life! So, today is his daughter’s birthday, so he noted that is something we should all be in touch with. Out of destruction, out of the ashes comes the phoenix; the worst things bring out the best in people. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Peter recalled that on that day, in the afternoon, days, and weeks that followed, he was never prouder to be a New Yorker. Although, we tend to be brusk, at times, for those who visit here will find a genuine warmth from the people, especially if you have an ‘accent’ from another country. Peter recounted that after the tragedy we were all talking to each other and we were there for each other. He noted that by the next day the city filled with military and there were attack helicopters flying overhead. There were fully armed jets flying in the air along with military personnel with automatic weapons in the streets. Peter said one wanted to burst into tears trying to wrap your head around it all because it happened so fast.
REALITY OF THE 9/11 ATTACK
After knowing the attack was real, we realized we were at war. When the next plane hit the second tower, we knew. Peter noted we didn’t know with whom we were at war, who struck us, what it was about, or what to expect next. That afternoon, his building was evacuated. Peter lived in an apartment right off of Central Park, at the time on the west side; a beautiful location. It was a beautiful day. The weather was flawless; it was perfect. He went back to his apartment and listened to the radio and as the sun went down he realized, dammit, he was a prisoner in his own home!
Peter recalled he was hurting, frightened, and furious! So, he couldn’t stay in the apartment. He got out and walked over four miles to Times Square. The place was almost empty like the streets. Peter noticed the few people bravely sat at cafes trying to get on with their lives. He photographed the electronic displays with information on what was happening. Peter returned to his apartment around midnight. What came to him as ironic and even surreal was the fact he and others had to go to work the next day. Whereupon, he returned to his office and it was business, as usual. There were areas that had been cordoned off, but other than that, he and his colleagues were back on a normal routine.
ALYSON RECOUNTS RESIDUAL EFFECTS OF 9/11
Alyson stated she could hardly imagine what a place like New York City could look like deserted; however, Glasgow, Scotland had an eerie semblance of desertion the same day. She was on a bus, not knowing what had happened when the driver stopped and said he wasn’t going any further. There was a bomb scare in the city center and we couldn’t continue. It was like the end of the world. So, we walked through the city center. It was eerie because there were no police, cars, or people anywhere. We walked to a bus stop farther out of the city. Alyson said it was a horrific day for everyone.
Peter stated it was science fiction in that sense in New York. Mass transit was shut down. Then, he explained more about what happened in the five boroughs (counties) of New York work, overall. Manhattan and Staten Islands are exactly that, islands. They are actually quite small and there is a network of bridges to enter and exit. Those who think Manhattan, as an example is large and strong, it is not like that. Take out a couple of bridges and then many people would be unable to leave normally. There is only about three days of food on the island. Trucks bring supplies day and night. People who lived in other boroughs, Long Island or upstate could not get off the island.
Essentially, Peter continued, it was like a little Dunkirk. Then, something miraculous happened. Several thousand owners of small pleasure boats from New Jersey, as well as, from the other side, Queens and Brooklyn came up to the coast. It was rough going because the area was not accommodating to pick up or deliver passengers. Then, they ferried people back and forth to where they could obtain transit to where they were going.
Peter recounted a good friend of his, Tom Reilly who lived in New Jersey, got a boat ride home. And, another friend hitched-hiked to a tunnel where he caught a ride with a family relation to get home. One cannot make this stuff up. It shows how connected we all are. Peter said that in this world of increasing divisiveness, including our government, our leaders, and our current American president who are doing and saying things to increase the distance between us.
Peter finished his statement pointing out, again, how connected we all are. Further, the populace of many countries are not represented by their governments. In many cases, that is putting it mildly.
SACHA CHRISTIE AND PETER ROBBINS
Alyson, speaking of divisiveness, the last couple of years have been stressful, traumatic, and a nightmare, really. She pointed out that we couldn’t avoid the subject of Larry Warren, really. Alyson continued with saying Larry Warren and Peter were very good friends, at one time. Peter said yes. She asked Peter how he felt when Sacha Christie started revealing her findings. Peter agreed that this should be discussed. Sacha Christie, with her partner Dave, began to expose Larry Warren. Peter continued that Sacha is one tough broad and is focused and single-minded. This brought to mind to Peter that she had, in the past, her own devils to wrestle with. They had met, briefly, where Sacha was open and he learned she had previous psychiatric issues or still had them.
RENDLESHAM FOREST BOOK
Thereafter, Peter recounted the history and events resultant of Peter’s book of Left At East Gate. He did it for the benefit of the listeners who were unaware of how this came about. Peter co-authored the book regarding the events of the well known British UFO incident of the so-called Rendlesham Forest Incident or sometimes known as the Bentwaters Incident. It was named after the American Air Force base in December, 1980, with an alleged witness to the events. He has a long post on this that Peter invites and encourages anyone interested to read on what we are going to touch on here. It can be viewed at peterrobbinsny.com. And, that post he put up a year ago, June of 2017, is the front and center on my website because he thought it to be that significant. The only point that has changed in the statement at the end was words to the effect that he had said what he said, was not interested in discussing this further. This (interview) is a perfect example of that.
SACHA CHRISTIE AND LARRY WARREN
Peter continued saying that Alyson referred to Sacha Christie who was a good friend of Larry Warren. She, being of good heart, with her then partner Dave Kelly, invited Larry to move in when with the kids when he was homeless. He abused the situation, markedly. It led Sacha’s beginning to examine in detail, parts of the book Larry and Peter had written. It came at a time when many self-starters, fans, friends, and readers who up until that time had nothing but respect and admiration for his co-author and him, as far as, he could see.
Peter stated that people started to find problems and conflicts with what Larry had written of his official accounting in the book that had been recorded. Some of these conflicts went as far back as to the original events themselves. His first take on this after his initial research was that he had taken Larry’s accounts seriously. There has been a lot of self-recrimination, as noted in his long polemic (his post argument) on his website. He further stated that in his character, he is a person of good will who takes people at their word, who looks for the best in people and does not come at people in a negative way unless they come at him in that spirit or with someone he respects. Peter continued that if he could joke or knew someone who could lie more convincingly to one’s face, in spoken or written form, he would be completely unaware of it. Well, Larry Warren was brilliant at what he does, which is confabulate, exaggerate, make things up, and he bought it.
LARRY WARREN AND MORE
After a while, Peter continued to think Larry was heroic. Yes, he’s damaged, is wrestling with alcohol, maybe he was diddled with by the military, and he can be irascible. He can be unpleasant, at times, but he’s a great guy. It is an irony that maybe Larry didn’t actually witness the events, but he was good at coming forward and staying in peoples’ faces about it. One premise Peter rejected from the beginning was that some people are so driven to be well-known. They wanted to be famous, even if it is something out of the question (or not there) to be famous about. Peter thinks that Larry, in his heart of hearts, wanted to be a musician. Peter then stuttered with the word magician instead of musician. Alyson and Peter chuckled at that point that Larry talked about his obsession of being photographed with famous musicians, his love of pop music, etc. Alyson said he could be a magician, as well. Peter recounted that Warren spoke of his high school band where they had an audience of 5,000 in his final performance. Peter stated he had blithely bought it.
Then, Peter stated more critical observers came forward to make him aware of how unrealistic this was, as well as, other exaggerations were. He further commented on Sacha putting all this together. She and her husband Dave had a certain righteous indignation regarding Larry and how he had turned on them. They had been kind enough to put him up when he was homeless. Peter recounted, he knew of other similar situations. Peter considers Sacha to be forthright and focused. He remembered more to share that the situations Larry and Sacha had were problematic and lasted for decades not just over a matter of a year or so.
Peter considered Larry to be the real goods. He said he considered Larry to be his ‘problem child’ brother he never had. Peter stated with all that had happened, he didn’t get it. In fact, he worried about Larry and his health over time. Noting that one cannot change the past, one of the regrets he had was he welcomed Larry into his family. Peter recounted how warmly he was received by his mother, sister and other family members. He had a lot of respect and admiration for Larry. It was a lot to break through when he learned about the information Sacha was sending out. At first, Peter just didn’t believe it. He sided with Larry, considering he was always attacked and was the underdog.
THE REALIZATION
Then, other people Peter knew and respected came forward with more information. One of the persons, Ronnie Dugdale, an outstanding researcher and investigator and a great guy who started bringing more to Peter’s attention. At first, Peter cut him off. He unfriended him on Facebook and would have nothing to do with it. It hurt Ronnie terribly. Well, it caught up with Peter months later. Now, the hurt was in Peter’s ‘box’. He was so thankful that he and Ronnie have reclaimed a good friendship.
Peter has spent the last two years apologizing to people to set things right. But, then, after a while James (Penniston) and others came forward with more information so he made a point to read it. This resulted in Peter remaining in a state of being ‘caught like a deer in the headlights’. He was in denial. Then, he began to realize he was wrong.
OVERREACTIONS
Then, Peter cautioned that there has been an understandable sort of rage-driven overreaction where people now thought that nothing of what Larry said is true in Left At East Gate. Although, his credibility has been compromised, Peter noted that it took nine years to write the book. It contains hundreds of annotated, fact-checked notes and evidence. He stands behind his organization and work as being authentic, inclusive of his own findings. It stands as factual now, even after such realizations had been made.
Alyson astutely queried Peter about the possibility of extracting his contributions from his book to possibly republish it. Peter chuckled and responded that because he and Larry wrote the book as co-authors, it could bring up legal questions. Then, he reminisced on the book writing process where Larry was asked to produce his contributions in a typed, double-spaced format. Larry agreed. To date, he doesn’t think Larry has typed a word in his life. All Peter received were hand-written notes scrawled on legal paper. It was a maddening process to transcribe them to book format. So, much of the information in the book is intertwined since they wrote it together. His writing required a lot of editing so Peter’s writings were on the papers, as well.
SUBSEQUENT HISTORICAL EVENTS
Peter recounted how Larry had improved his writing skills by the end of the book’s completion. He wrote exhaustive letters to Larry to ask if he would just admit to his lies and mistakes and it could work out. Peter said he did back flips telling Larry he would stand by him if he did. Larry was quiet until over a year ago where he began lashing out with writings that he would pay no attention to punctuation and proper grammar. Obviously, he didn’t care how he communicated, especially when he was drinking.
Alyson stated that if Larry had just admitted he screwed up and he was sorry, he would have been forgiven. Peter responded saying he was sure people would have, or at least most would have forgiven him. The problem with Larry like a lot of guys is they have a terrible time admitting they made a mistake. Peter doesn’t see Larry as evil; his pathology is what it is. He continued saying that it has been a rough couple of years. Peter has been doing professionally little else, but trying to make amends with people he knew well and some he didn’t know.
Peter stated that in a type of flattery he’d never want, it was his hard work and tireless talks he gave over the decades that praised and supported Larry Warren. This made Larry’s accounting so accepted until it all fell apart. Alyson responded saying that Peter had a huge amount of support, as well. She pointed out that Peter used the term ‘indoctrination’ and there is almost like a religious cult around Larry Warren where people are taken in with his personality and charisma. Peter agreed that he is charismatic and he can look you right in the eye and lie.
THE CONFERENCE AND AFTERMATH
Peter recalled the most dramatic event where he was to speak where Larry lied to him. It was at the conference where Alyson had worked so hard to bring them both together in the great city of Glasgow, Scotland, two years ago. He suddenly learned just before the conference start that Larry was not going to speak. They were to be the keynote speakers in the last hour and a half. Peter noted that Alyson’s hard work to raise the money to get them both to the conference, after learning Peter and Larry hadn’t spoken on stage together for ten years. He took Larry aside in front of the hotel and asked him what had happened. Knowing there was a dialogue from a party on a public page that stated if Larry spoke, he may be asked some embarrassing questions, if she attended the conference. Peter, without saying who it was spoke directly to Alyson that she knew. Larry responded to Peter’s question, looking him straight in the eye, that they had threatened his family. Peter backed down because he didn’t know anything about it.
Peter recounted that his appearance at the conference was in the middle of an eccentric three-conference tour. It began in Dayton, Ohio, Glasgow, Scotland, and ended in Athens, Greece. Alyson remembered this and agreed. He gave the same talk in Glasgow, as he gave in Athens and it ‘stuck in his craw’ and it was the last time he said it. When Peter returned to America he did some research and found Larry had lied to him. No one had threatened Larry’s family. Peter addressed this and a number of other questions to Larry and he was met with him changing the subject or becoming silent.
CAPEL GREEN
Peter stated that now there is a film in process being made. He is not sure if it is a film or a documentary about Larry’s experiences at Capel Green where the alleged third night was set. It put Peter in a spot to defend Larry’s account, but that is the way it is. Peter made a number of trips back to Suffolk, inclusive of a number of interviews and research about the incident to develop the story. Larry returned, as well. Over the next nine years Peter and Larry met together and separately (to investigate).
Peter recalled the spot where Larry had pointed to the field, as the trees cleared where the craft had allegedly sat. They noticed a distinct discoloration of the soil. Peter noted it was winter so it was gray on gray. He took some photographs of the area. He returned to the area a year and one-half later in June of 1990 and took more pictures. This time Peter took more photographs in ‘glorious’ color and noted a dramatic circular yellow area of grass gone to hay in the field where the alleged craft had landed. The surrounding areas of the field were green, dotted here and there with red and white poppies.
Peter took a large amount of soil samples from the site and took them to the states where a well-known and respected earth scientist, Matthew Monize analyzed the samples. The results showed true anomalies indicating changes in the soil had occurred. So, for years, Peter thought this was proof of Larry’s accounting. Peter said to Alyson was this proof? No, it was not proof that Larry had been on site, but it does prove he knew where it was. It is also known that he was in the area during the event. What he did was to use witness accounting to place him there, but at no time did Larry ever say ‘I’ or ‘me’ when reporting to Peter. The enigmatic Adrian Bustinza, a witness, who gave many conflicting reports to this story may have shown Larry that site.
RENDLESHAM FOREST VERIFICATION AND FILM
Peter moved forward to mention the letter Larry Warren wrote to his mother just a week or so after the events occurred at Rendlesham. He had seen this many years earlier that had been written on Air Force stationery that reflected what had happened. Peter affirmed that the letter Larry wrote, although not proven from forensics to date, is real. Gary Heseltine has promoted this letter many times in his attempt to promote Larry. Peter noted that Larry referred to others as they or the men, or what they saw. He reflected that if Larry lied, it was the morning after the event when he called her (Warren’s mother). This phone call had witnesses with Larry and his mother when he discussed the UFO event and was cut off. It happened. He wove himself into the story early on and other credible men verified he was present at the event and in the area. To whatever degree Larry Warren was involved, this is fact.
However, Peter stated, one and one does not necessarily make two is not true in this case; it is three. Larry has a cadre of people who are working on the film. This will continue to contaminate the story. Larry will continue to be this controversial rebellious anti-hero who, in a way, is his destiny. In sum, Peter said he doesn’t hate him, but he is a screw-up who has created so much chaos and has hurt so many people. He has conducted vicious attacks on the health, the safety, and lives of so many people. Peter continued to note he has not made good on the threats, but there is much printed evidence of this and he has threatened more people than he can remember.
Now, it seems, Peter stated, he has ‘cleaned’ up his ‘act’ thanks to being managed by Gary Heseltine. Alyson interjected after agreeing with Peter that Gary Heseltine is starting to ‘proofread’ his posts on Facebook, as well.
LARRY WARREN MEMORABILIA
Alyson opened this segment about some of Larry Warren’s memorabilia he sells. She asked that he has for sale something Peter had given him that he altered. It was Peter’s late sister, Helen whose signature (or someone did) had been forged. Alyson also asked if it had upset Peter. Peter said that yes, it had.
Peter started with Larry’s history of collecting pop culture early on when such memorabilia was collectible. From the early 1980’s Larry got into this market. Peter doesn’t know to what degree he did collect with authentic things; however, one of the most outrageous lies he perpetrated was telling Peter he was in touch with May Pang who gave him John Lennon’s sunglasses and an army surplus raincoat. A bit earlier, Peter detailed the process where his late sister introduced him to the late Phoebe Snow, who introduced Larry to May. She was the person with whom John Lennon had an extended affair for over a year and a half while not with Yoko Ono. So, when Larry came to Peter’s apartment with the announcement, Peter thought to himself, cool. Since he knew May Pang, in passing, it was learned later that this never happened. Further, May was quite vocal about the fact she had given Larry nothing of a sort.
Over time, Peter continued that we now know that Larry has tried to pass off many different items that are authenticated fakes. One case is Peter thought Larry was friends with a scholar of the great Stevie Ray Vaughn. Larry had produced a picture of his standing with him. It could have been with a show Larry was working in upstate New York. Peter claimed he didn’t know whether it was the truth or not. By this time he didn’t believe anything Larry was telling him any longer.
PETER RECALLS LATE SISTER HELEN
Peter remembered something from this past December where there were two items at an auction of rock and roll memorabilia and there was memorabilia from his late sister, Helen. She was a gifted artist and poet, as well as, an award-winning song writer. She was also gold and platinum record award winner. Helen was a well known singer and performer who was a rising star in the early days of the punk musical movement. Her performances were based around a small club in lower Manhattan called CBGB (Country BlueGrass and Blues). She played there starting in 1976.
When Helen wanted Peter to see what she did he was sounding like his parents, as in, who cares; it’s just noise. He was into Motown, good jazz, classic rock, and heavy metal rock. So, when Helen dragged him down there, he started going regularly where he would see Iggy Pop, Debbie Harry-Blondie, and Patti Smith. Including the Talking Heads, the list went on and on. In a small club where there was only a 175 person fire-limit seating it all seemed like a dream. Helen Wheels was very popular, a well-known, popular performer at the time. And, she was also a gifted actress. She was a renaissance woman.
At the time, Helen was a member of the finest repertory company in New York where Peter was the house manager for the Mirror Rep (Mirror Repertory Company). It had its share of Tony Award winners, Academy Award winners who are well known in America and the United Kingdom. Helen appeared in plays where there were big, fancy opening night parties beforehand. It was an outrageously sleazy night club at the time. It was a ‘de-consecrated’ church. And, at a certain point in its history, like Studio 54, it was a well-known cocaine location with heavy partying. Beautiful cards were printed, mailed and given out to people to announce the opening night.
PETER ROBBINS ARCHIVE AND MORE ON WARREN
Some time after Peter’s sister died and he recovered from the deepest grief of his life, he started to archive many of her materials. He had a rubber stamp made stating, ‘From the Estate of Helen Wheels’. This was her performing name. He used this stamp with red ink, always to place on her ephemera. Peter went on to say that he knew how Warren was a devote of pop culture. He said that Larry even tried to ‘screw’ his sister in death by faking her signature and trying to make money from it.
Of course, at the time, he (Larry) feigned great admiration, friendship and love for Helen so, Peter gave him one each of his cards. Peter affirmed the cards were empty when he gave them to Larry. Then, at the auction, there they were and there were signatures all over them! It would be laughable if it were not so infuriating; however, there was Helen’s faked signature at the top of each card and it was not even a good forgery. Not only that, it seemed that Andy Warhol just ‘happened’ to stop by and although, he had stopped making little soup can drawings in the 1960’s, he ‘drew’ one next to his name.
Peter continued with Katharine Hepburn, who was already in her eighties and a very private person, didn’t go to night clubs or events like that. So, Larry’s logic was since her niece was in the show, her aunt would be there. This was outrageous. Katharine Hepburn’s niece is a brilliant actress and one who Peter said is privileged to be a friend. She starred as the ingenue and love interest of Sydney Portier in the movie, ‘Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner’. Peter contacted the auction house and they (Larry’s forged cards) were withheld.
MORE WARREN REVELATIONS
Peter was as shocked at that, as he was when he started to publish his findings, Larry, inasmuch suggested if any of his military record had been ‘diddled’ with or if anything changed, it was Peter who did it. Peter has his papers on file. This was the closest Peter had felt in the movie, ‘Godfather II’ where Al Pacino said, ‘I know it was you, Fredo.’ Peter opined the statement twice, ‘How dare he, how dare he’.
Alyson offered to Peter how shocking this was. Then, Peter continued that over a dozen years ago, Larry had said he started painting. As a trained painter and somebody who started his career as an artist, Peter thought this was the best news he could have been told. Peter recounted that, at the time, he loved him as a brother and saw so much dormant talent in Larry. He thought if anyone could from being an untrained artist to someone who could make a living as a painter, it was him.
Sure enough, Peter recalled, over the next few years, his styles changed; he (Larry) was ferociously creative. He was very restless. Larry’s styles changed from different abstracts to realistic and back again. He drew pop stars, UFO themes and complete abstractions. Peter had a friend who lived in north London who offered to put a show together. He nor Larry took him up on the offer.
Larry, instead of using his wonderful talent (for good), he turned to non-convicted, felonious activity by faking the paintings of rock and rollers. This is where Sacha Christie and Dave Kelly watched, as Larry painted part of a painting at their home. Larry later put it in a catalog as being a painting by Jimi Hendricks! Peter recalls that it went for 19,000 pounds or something. Alyson queried that he must have been making a lot of money doing this. Peter responded that he could only guess.
However, Peter said he did his homework. He found that even the most reputable auction houses here, in the United Kingdom, and abroad know about such possibilities (of fraud). The potential for embarrassment, bad press, professional humiliation, or a possible lack of trust by the auction-going public is so major houses like Christy’s know that, oh my, this is in the catalog. Finding out or even knowing that the paintings may not be authentic, they will hold their breaths and let it go to auction. And, if it comes up as such (fake), they will pay people off and make their apologies, privately. It is difficult to force this issue in the court of public opinion.
A MATTER OF CHARACTER
Peter brought up the fact that from mostly Larry’s clique of believers, they have said to him that this has nothing to do with the UFO account. Peter retorted that yes, it has everything to do with character! Everything goes to character especially when you are a public person in a controversial field and you are purporting to tell the whole truth. When you are accounting something extra-ordinary as truth, (it is) when you are making your living as a forger.
Alyson brought up the fact that all this would not have come forward without the Internet and Facebook. She noted some information gets out, but much of it are lies and can be further spread.
She mentioned that until recently, the new documentary about Capel Green has been quiet for a long, long time from the other side. All of the sudden, we are getting things like Gary Heseltine on the radio. They are starting to say stuff and to them it is like free publicity.
Alyson further noticed that a number of previous believers have moved away; however, they have a lot of new ones on their (Heseltine and Warren) side now. She has received emails from people who have come around, have realized, and have noticed that we were right. Now, Alyson’s concern is with all these new people here, we may have to go through all this again?
SACHA CHRISTIE’S BLOG
Alyson pointed out that none of us had read Sacha Christie’s blog until we had to do so. She would get a tap on the shoulder saying, ‘Have you read our blog, yet? I think you should.’
Peter responded that although, Alyson and he have come from totally different backgrounds, you reading the book later on like many people who found it most compelling were contacting me to do a radio show and intercede for Larry. He recounted that when Sacha Christie first came out with her blog, Alyson defended Larry in the beginning. Peter noted how Alyson had admired them (both) and was so supportive. He said it was heartbreaking for him to see what Alyson was enduring to the point of affecting her health.
THE SPI CONFERENCE INCIDENT
Peter reflected that all the hard work Alyson did, raising the money to bring him, Larry, and others to the conference only to have his part fall apart at the last minute. Everything turned so quickly. Then, it stuck Peter in the position of staying up until 3 am to give a talk for one and a half hours instead forty-five minutes. He was relegated to re-writing and editing what to say to make it fit to say it like everything was okay, hauling the line, like being Larry’s champion, as always.
Then, as Peter continued, Larry started spreading the rumor beginning that weekend like it was Alyson who was responsible for him not speaking at the conference! Then, he went to the university to say there was someone there who wanted him to speak. Peter asked Larry who was the person and he’d make it public to stand by him. As usual, Larry went absolutely quiet when he was queried because there was no such person. Then, he noted how Alyson went into a state of depression and some very bad health for a stretch. Peter said he went through being angry, guilty, hurt, and working through his own incredible disappointments over the next few months because that is where all this was triggered.
LARRY WARREN RETURNS TO THE STATES
Larry returned to the states a month or so later to see his mom. He was also going to speak in Canada and to surprise Peter at a conference in New York State where he was speaking, as well as, being the Master of Ceremony. At the time, he thought how great it was to see him and maybe he was wrong or overreacting. Then, Larry shoved at Peter that he should get on the same page with him because if he goes down, Peter would look bad. Of course, that worked with Peter for a very long time. That was the last time Peter saw Larry for over two years until now.
ALYSON’S RESPONSE AND CHARLES HALT
Alyson stated that she hopes this all ends with Capel Green and it is over. She plans stay out of it all as much as possible. She is sure it is kicking off, again.
Alyson asked about Peter’s relationship with Charles Halt. She understands their relationship has improved. Peter chuckled and said, ‘Not bad.’ They have communicated a number of times. He began our communications with a terse email a little over a year ago, he mused.
Halt said in his email he understood that Larry and Peter had a falling out, but he had his questions and concerns. His question to Peter was if he had realized he had gotten involved with Larry as a co-conspirator who was in it for the fame and fortune. Charles queried, as Larry’s story was falling apart, Peter needed to be the rat jumping ship to jettison his relationship with him and cut off all ties to make him look like he had not been involved, or was he the biggest ‘prat’ in the history of ufology? He assured Halt, as much as, he could that it was the latter.
Peter wrote to Charles that no one had screwed up to the degree that he ever had for a longer time. And, he hoped Charles would accept his apology for demonizing him for two decades. He brought up the book he wrote calling Halt into question. He said it would have been a brilliant book had it been true. His book was based on half-truths, exaggerations, and lies (from Warren).
BOOK AND THE CONFERENCE
Peter mentioned that Alyson and he were so sure since Larry and he had not spoken for so long the new book would be a big seller at the conference. He recalled that he had printed and shipped a large number of them to the conference. Because Larry wasn’t there the talk fell on its face to a degree. Peter sold only a dozen of the books. It worked out that it would have cost him a lot more to ship the books back home than to just abandon them.
At that time, a mutual friend of Peter and Larry who became Larry’s supporter and Peter’s biggest detractor, accepted his offer to take the books to a non-profit or something to be of benefit. To date, Peter was pretty sure to bet hard cash he just got enjoyment in handing them out to others who would see how Peter was so pro-Larry, but had now deserted him.
Alyson said she was glad to see that Peter and Charles Halt were getting back on an ‘even keel’ now. Peter responded that yes, they have. He admitted that Charles had suffered, as well. Peter was glad to see him get some recognition and he (Halt) has a second book coming out, now. He went on to say that although, they have not communicated in the last few months, all was well. Peter said, like in the 1960’s he blew his mind. Charles had warned Peter that he had a great book, but the wrong person. Halt went on to say if he had written the book with him instead of Warren it would have been different.
BOOK REMOVED FROM PRINT
As Peter started to mention the book he had written attacking what Nick Pope had written, who attacked the treatment of his accounting, Alyson interjected Nick’s book name, Deliberate Deception. Peter had made his next book, filled with archival material online at no charge. It was about first night witnesses to respond. With Halt And Woodbridge, it was over 400 pages in length. It took over 600 hours of his life to complete. Peter removed both books he had written, as soon as, he knew what was going on.
Sadly, Peter said, he confronted his publisher in New York who is a great guy, who, like me, thought we were writing a completely non-fiction book. Peter stated to Alex he needed to do his own investigation and if he concluded the same (as Peter), the book must be removed from print. Peter said all this with mixed feelings. The publisher conducted their investigation and concluded they must remove it from print. It broke Peter’s heart, but he stated, what is right is right.
As of last January, Left At East Gate was removed from publication. Peter cannot see how it can be published, again. If it were, it would have a disclaimer that what Larry Warren contributed may not be true and Peter, as co-author could not verify it. He doesn’t see it as ever returning to print so anyone who has a signed copy has a collector’s item.
Alyson and Peter laughed when she said she has one copy of his book and it is not his signature. Peter promised he’d send her a copy. He continued to chuckle that he has a bunch of stickers with Larry’s signature on it that they used to provide their names. Peter noted that Larry has lived in Liverpool since 2000 and since Peter lives in New York state all that time; it was impossible to sign copies together.
ALYSON TO THE POINT
Alyson stated that she only had a taste of the situation and had been a believer. She said after all these years of Peter and Larry being friends with each other, her friends and others approached her asking if Peter knew anything and she said no. Alyson stated that Peter was ‘taken in’ as anyone else. She further stated, we are living in a conspiratorial world now where people think you knew all along. She then queried Peter on how would he respond to that?
Peter responded that if anyone believed that he had foreknowledge of what happened, he referred to his polemic, as mentioned above. One can see it again, here. Other than that, Peter continued. He was not aware. Peter further stated for the record, he believed him (Larry), he supported him, and Peter allowed to be taken in by him. He said that if one wants to call it a flaw on his part of being too trusting, to supportive, or pathologically nice, that was Peter. Fool me once, as it goes.
TRAVIS WALTON
Peter went on to say that one of his esteemed friends, colleague, and role model is Travis Walton. He has tremendous admiration for him. He recalls a number of times during Travis’s career where he would say to his audience that if one feels that the account he has given is so far fetched, it couldn’t possibly be real, and he is either delusional, a liar, or however one wants to see it, he would absolutely understand. Peter continued to recall the talk where Travis would say if it was someone else up here giving that account and he didn’t have the knowledge, information or experience Travis did, he’d feel the same way. He stated that he (Peter) has to feel the same way.
PETER OPENS UP WITH HONESTY AND ACCOUNTABILITY
Peter said life goes on and he has dealt with tougher things in his life. He has had greater sadness and upsets before. Things are in perspective. Peter said he’s finishing up a book right now that has nothing to do with Rendlesham Forest Incident. It is ironic and among some people Peter stated he’s been going out of his way for the past few years apologizing. He noted that person-by-person, talk-by-talk, radio show-by-radio show he has been correcting the record and making things as clear as he can. Peter has been taking responsibility for his failures, short-comings, and mis-judgments.
Among a certain number of people who follow this subject, Peter noted he has become known as being more ethical and honest than they had thought before. He doesn’t know what percentage it is, but he is more appreciative than he can say among those who do feel that way. And, for those who don’t? Just spend 20 years with Larry Warren and see how it works out for you. Or, again, Peter said, read what he has written and use your common sense, critical thinking, and one’s own best judgment to come to one’s own conclusions.
ALYSON AND PETER’S NEW BOOK
Alyson asked Peter about his new book. She said now that this is all behind him, please share. Peter stated that it is basically an anthology. It is a compilation of many subjects that he has made it his business as an independent, investigative writer that he has assigned for himself. Peter said there will be chapters with stories, accounts, case histories, individuals, and studies within the research community.
It is not much that is blindingly original in terms of his history as him being an investigator and writer. He stated it will be a way to pull together a lot of the things he had been involved in investigating, studying, researching, writing about, developed strong interests in, and being interested in the historical record, etc. Peter continued that it is going back to when he became obsessed with this subject (ufology), which was over 40 years ago when his sister shared with him memories of a childhood abduction experience.
This came at a time when Peter said a bit tongue-in-cheek it was ‘alien’ to him. It was during a time when it (ufology) was not a popular culture like it is now. There were a few books on it, such as the Betty and Barney Hill story, which had been public at that point for about 10 years. People told Peter his life had changed overnight, but he said it changed in about 90 seconds. Peter continued that he is no longer obsessed with the subject anymore. But, he’s been involved with it (ufology) for a long enough time and he’s been earnest enough, honest enough, and a good enough researcher to be respected in this field.
PETER AND ALYSON WRAP UP
With the current situation aside, Peter said that he does have a good track record. It is important for folks who know him through Left At East Gate or this recent scandal that they have some idea of how many other cases, studies, talks, papers, and articles he’s produced over the years.
Alyson wrapped it up with thanks to Peter Robbins for a fantastic show. She mentioned that hopefully, he could return and maybe they could do the classic Sci-fi show they had discussed? Alyson said it would be so good. She continued that there were so many more questions, but she thanked Peter for joining on this week’s show.
Peter responded that not to be too picky about language, but he stated he couldn’t say it was a pleasure. But, it was great speaking with Alyson and the information was very important and timely. And, people do need to know about it. If anyone has any questions about it and my role, they can contact Peter through Alyson, through him at his Facebook page, and yes, he would look forward to returning to her show. It would be fun.
The audio of Episode 99, Peter Robbins, is available on ADX Files provided by Spreaker.com. One does not need to create an account to log into the website. It is free. Do not forget to follow Alyson Dunlop’s ADX Files, Enemy Within Radio! Participation with in-show broadcasts are welcomed. The audio episode cannot be re-broadcasted here because of its length.
NICK POPE – EPISODE 100 – ALYSON ADX FILES
NICK POPE PARTIAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY
Nick Pope is a freelance journalist and media commentator. His most notable works over the last few years has been in various UFO TV shows, many of which have been aired by the History Channel. He has written two novels on his UFO research and has traveled the world in his commentaries, research and investigations. While working with the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defence (MoD), he took up the mantle to study the defence ramifications regarding UFO phenomena from 1991-1994.
He now resides in the United States and continues his television, radio, and commentating in numerous venues. He has written many articles over the years, including for the New York Times, The Guardian, Muck Rack, and the Telegraph Journalist. More information about Nick and his work can be found on his website here.
And now, excerpts from Episode 100 of the ADX Files interview:
The interview begins queries about UFO hot spots where Nick Pope lives in Tucson, Arizona. Throughout the area Nick stated that there are indeed many sightings with much activity. Although he has not seen anything himself, there are many reports. He lives not too far from Phoenix, the place where the ‘Phoenix Lights’ occurred. There is still a lot going on in the city’s surrounding areas.
AATIP
Alyson asked Nick about the situation with AATIP, or the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program. Nick responded that at least for the United States, this is dominating the UFO agenda these days. The New York Times, known for its skeptical views about UFOs broke the story, then resulting in similar publications being published this past year. He pointed out that many call it the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. This means that many interesting things are going on when the Pentagon and other entities are using different names for it.
Nick stated, the controversy continues to date, yet how can it result in Congressional hearings to bear. What is the threat? Is it from aircraft, drones, missiles, satellites, or UFOs? What is AATIP? What was the conclusion? How was our tax money spent?
Alyson asked regarding a UK publication, The Metro that stated there were documents released pertaining to such futuristic aircraft designs that could usher in military dominance for years to come. Nick responded that absolutely this was not a stretch by no means. It’s real. He mentions the letter created where Senator Harry Reid covered this in detail. How could possible threats from UFOs could be addressed and organized so as to counter such possibilities successfully. What opportunities could we have in handling such a situation?
ALYSON ASKED – WHO ELSE IS INVOLVED
Alyson asked who else was involved in this process. The name Luis Elizondo is mentioned. Nick said that Luis, or Lue, as he wants to be called is an interesting character. With a military past based in intelligence, Lou transferred into the DIA (Defence Intelligence Agency), which is part of the Department of Defence. Elizondo wound up running AATIP until last year. He resigned and went private, joining the Stars academy, created by Tom DeLonge. Also, a number of persons with AATIP joined the academy headed up by a former punk rocker. You can’t make this up, Nick quipped.
A number of AATIP personnel have contracted out to places like Bigelow Aerospace in the private sector headed by Robert Bigelow, who in fact is friends with Harry Reid. Furthermore, Nick continued, some key people with intelligence and scientific backgrounds are getting involved. This is very interesting and quirky, to say the least. When John Podesta’s (Chief of Staff) emails were hacked, information about Tom DeLonge’s work with UFOs was discovered.
Alyson brought up the fact that Lou Elizondo has been saying that we may not be alone. Nick retorted that Lou has been very careful with his words, as he is. In his contact with Lou, Nick notes that he is careful not to say it is extraterrestrial. Nick’s work with the MoD (Ministry of Defence) was not too different from what Lou had been doing. He is careful to not divulge classified information since he did work for the DoD (Department of Defence). Interestingly, Lou stated, if the crafts being tracked on radar and seen by jet pilots who gave chase like the recent events had Russian or North Korean markings, there would be an outcry.
Nick stated, these craft had no such thing (markings) so nothing can be said as to what they are. Some in the Pentagon thought this was demonic so they shied away from making further comments.
CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS
Alyson mused that many of these contacts may not be extraterrestrial, but technology from another country. Nick pointed out the correctness of the statement and if it is so, we need to know that, too! In fact, we’d need to know it even more. Look at the terms used for the craft seen in the recently declassified Navy videos released for the ‘gimble’, ‘tic-tac’, and ‘go-fast’ vehicles.
Alyson asked Nick from a Daily Star article that perhaps White House public hearings about aliens exposing truth behind a UFO project. Could this happen? Nick affirmed his belief that it will happen. He mentioned another article released by Politico that Congress is not happy that there has been ongoing UFO research when it had been previously stated no investigations had continued since Project Blue Book. The Armed Services Committee is looking to this, querying the DIA. Nick has offered his testimony since most of his work at the MoD has been declassified. So, yes, it looks good that Congressional hearings will occur to discuss this phenomenon.
Alyson said Nick had mentioned that this could all lead to a ‘political bombshell’. Nick responded that most systems for UFO investigating and more are already in place. However, it becomes a ‘bombshell’ when agencies say no, they aren’t investigating when Congress says you are. The example is that funding was pulled for AATIP, but there are still resources available to continue. He follows up with more technical information depicting the process and how it is approached from government, scientific testing, and the military.
All-in-all, Nick stresses that none of the personnel who are associated with the Stars Academy or other agencies who have military backgrounds are going to divulge classified information. Whistle-blowing occurs, but with sensitive information being made public, one must remember that not only the public gets it, so do the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans, and other countries get it, too. His confidence in Lou Elizondo is confirmed, as a colleague and fellow military professional. Rest assured that professionals do know what and how to make public what is declassified to disseminate knowledge they have without compromising sensitive information.
UFO NOW UAP
Alyson asked Nick if Hillary Clinton had been elected, would we know more about the UFO phenomena. Nick said yes, he believes we would. In his conversation with John Podesta, Nick said the MoD had changed the terminology from UFO to UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) to eliminate the pop-culture giggle factor. After his meeting, he knew Hillary Clinton had gotten the message and would look into matters regarding the UFO phenomena and Area 51. We know this didn’t occur, but we have no idea of what President Trump thinks about this.
Nick mentioned that a number of key individuals are now thinking we are entering the ‘end-game’ of a disclosure process. Certainly, we are living in most interesting times. When Alyson said that Nick had made some predictions that we may have disclosure in 2020, he relented that he made such statements before the AATIP situation. Further, he is not part of the To The Stars Academy or AATIP. He sees a number of dates; however, he believes we may see congressional hearings, as early as this next year.
He stated that there is another date he mentioned at the Sterling Conference of 2014 where the Square Kilometer Radio Telescope would become operational, but it depends on when it will be ready. There are a number of factors that can change dates, including run-ins with the ‘deep state’. Our answers will come through science rather than congressional hearings and ufology.
Nick Pope categorically stated that if there are other civilizations out there, the ‘flick of the switch’ to start the new radio telescope will give us an immediate answer. Keep an eye on the science.
UK DECLASSIFIES 18 FILES AT THE MoD
When Alyson queried Nick on the 18 files the MoD (Ministry of Defence) had finally released, Nick said when the files began being released in 2008 would be released in 2-3 years, it took ten years. Of those 18 files, over 60,000 documents have been released. Most of them do not indicate any evidence of extraterrestrial or UFO proof; however, many consider that the possibility exists.
Nick said, as he and Lou Elizondo view the gravity of information released as ‘low-probability high-impact’ scenarios, if evidence does surface it is of incredible importance to society. In sum, if any evidence becomes a reality, it will be an incredibly game-changing, paradigm-shifting revelation. The impact and consequences are almost incalculable. We have taken this seriously.
REPORTS OF FILES AND DOCUMENTS MISSING AND DESTROYED
Nick recounts that one of the unsung heroes of the Ministry’s release of files was John Burroughs. He, being one of the key witnesses of the Rendlesham Forest incident on the first night, read the released information and said that this isn’t it. It’s not all there. He returned to the MoD (Ministry of Defence) and pointed out information was missing. He was right. It turned out that when the MoD mysteriously found the 18 files they sent them out to the National Archives. Nick pointed out that it became a ‘comedy of errors’ when the files got transferred back and forth at least two or three times.
This is when Nick Pope became involved in the process. He came out of retirement to help because he felt it was the right thing to do. He supports open government and freedom of information being available to the public. The files would be available free for the first month to download. Thereafter there would be a small fee to pay to continue downloading. Unfortunately, the files available after the June, 2013 release had not been digitized or even made available for download for free. One had to actually go to the National Archive to view and work with hard copies. This was and is disappointing; however, it is worth the time to go there anyway. There was no ‘smoking gun’, but it is interesting, nonetheless to read what the individuals were talking about and how they approached the possibilities there may have been alien involvement. Further, what technology could be derived or learned from this situation.
Nick continued to say, what if it were the Russians or Chinese who had such technology. That would be just as important to know. This points to what Senator Harry Reid (as published in The Metro) stated in his letter on how to set up, organize and be able to discern and take action regarding these situations.
ALYSON ASKS ABOUT THE MISSING FILES
Alyson then asked regarding what John Burroughs noticed was what happened to the missing files? Why and how were they claimed to have been destroyed. Nick pointed out he cannot speak for his former employees; however, he noted a wider situation occurring in other areas where ships’ logs and other documents mysteriously ‘blew overboard’ at sea and the like. Curiously, not only were files destroyed, who commanded them to be destroyed were not known either. The ‘destruction slips’ to start the process were destroyed, too. Claims as to why this happened were such excuses like ‘asbestos contamination’, which was true, but it was not further elaborated. Files in existence were finally digitized and made available.
Nick wanted to make clear that documentation did surface about document destruction, but it should not be viewed as being conspiratorially planned. In his view it seemed to be more a factor of laziness, as stupidly where some persons in the MoD stated they were ‘pleased’ to report the files were destroyed. They didn’t think that their own memos would be declassified, as well. He pointed out that the Freedom of Information Act caused an industrial amount of work on the MoD employees regarding UFO phenomena. Nick’s colleagues thought differently, at the time, it would be more about hard evidence like rocks and old medals from World War II, Afghanistan, etc. Nick was right. It was about UFOs.
WILL FILES AND DOCUMENTS BE FOUND
When Alyson asked if the final three files would be found, or are there more? Nick stated that there are, but have been named in different categories. When UFOs terminology became classified as UAPs, some files and documents would not be found due to the ‘language’ changes. He didn’t believe it was done on purpose because that would be against the law. So, it was just an unintended consequence some colleagues found useful. It would make finding information under the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) more difficult. Nick then mused that who would have thought that under the FOIA in the United States that AATIP (Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program) would have been about UFOs? In short, there is more UFO information out there; however, it’s just not under the subject UFO.
EXOTIC FLIGHT ACTIVITY OBSERVED
Alyson brought up that a senior Air Force Commander had written that the MoD should be able to monitor all reports of unknown phenomena in case these were being exploited by another nation. This Air Force Commander was noticing the extreme UAP aerial activities such as fast, erratic, stationary flights, etc., were being observed. Further, he pointed out these craft are unknown. She pointed out this is disconcerting. Nick acknowledged that yes they are and that is why he continues to be involved even though he has retired from service. Like AATIP in the US, which is very similar to how the MoD is handling the phenomena, it raises critical questions about national defence and air safety.
Nick surmised, the fact these unknown craft can operate with minimal radar returns, or in a stealth mode, makes this even more of a concern.
Nick stated that in most cases such craft can avoid being detected on radar. However, the recent encounter with two US Navy F-18 jets and the unknown craft that did show up on radar so they were able to give chase. What the MoD is saying about these craft is mirroring what the US is saying, as well.
Nick said, the MoD had reported this years ago with Project Condign. We stated we needed to know what these craft are. They are making flight movements that are not typical of anything we have. If it was Russia or China doing this they are exhibiting abilities far ahead of what we have. This creates a national defence issue we cannot ignore. Of course, Nick continued, if it is someone else we certainly need to know who, what, why, where, when, etc.
Nick commented, the bottom line is technology acquisition. We must obtain it to be able to develop and utilize it. None of the present material disputes any of this. It can be read, publicly. All this should be part of Congressional hearings.
LARRY WARREN FRAUD
Alyson asked if we could talk about the Warren fraud and ensuing investigation. Nick said this was now an old story and it is difficult to discuss. Many people will come here to this subject for the first time. We must say that now this has been covered in the past. Whether it is about the Rendlesham Forest Incident or any other part of ufology, this was a shameful situation where he (Larry Warren) defrauded the ufology community with a story based on stealing other peoples’ stories. Frankly, much of what Larry Warren said was just made up. He managed to pull the wool over the eyes of Peter Robbins, a nice guy who admitted he failed to do his due diligence. Frankly, Warren is a pretty good liar. For those of us who know him if he says it’s a sunny day, we’d all go for our umbrellas. You can tell pretty much when he is lying because his lips are moving.
NICK POPE ON CAPEL GREEN
Sadly, although the Larry Warren fraud was exposed well over a year ago, there are people now trying to ‘re-brand’ the story. This shameful Capel Green documentary has new persons involved that may not know what is really going on so, perhaps they can be forgiven. However, why is Gary Hazeltine promoting this story when with just three seconds of research he would know this is a fraud. Nick continued that the ufology community is fed up with frauds, charlatans, and hoaxes. He mentioned the fiasco of the Roswell slides incident, which was a hoax.
Nick hopes Gary Heseltine (and others) will be honest enough to walk away from this obvious fraudulent project involved with Larry Warren. If it moves forward to perpetrate a fraud the second time the ufology community will be furious! Nick is dubious this will happen because it seems he (Heseltine) has invested too much into this. He is also an obstinate man who seems to be unable to admit his errors. He will not admit fault especially to people like you and Sacha.
Nick pointed out that Hazeltine has an obvious problem with women. The people who are moving forward to re-brand and re-sell Capel Green to a new generation should hang their heads in shame.
Alyson mentioned that Nick and Larry were friends at one time. She asked when he noticed cracks in his story? Nick stated that when Larry was sober and free of other ‘noxious’ substances he could be good company. However, don’t disagree with him, especially if you were a woman. He and Hazeltine both have real problems with women.
Nick continued on regarding Warren’s personal habits including substance abuse, homelessness and memorabilia fraud. Recently, it seems like Warren has ‘cleaned himself’ up, but he should ‘man-up’ and admit his fraud. Then, he could move on.
Peter Robbins and his publisher has pulled the book out of print. They have moved on. Although, Nick is hoping that Warren, Hazeltine, and others will turn away from this shameless and false documentary, he’s not sure it will happen. The lure of making money may be too much to refuse.
Nick declared that if Capel Green with Heseltine and Warren moves forward, the UFO community will be rightly furious when they find they’ve been conned a second time.
THE INTERVIEW FINISH AND A LISTENER QUESTION
Alyson wrapped up the interview with a listener question. Which incidents do you know to be of legitimate unknown structured craft events, Alyson asked? Nick responded with his recollection of a handful of events. They are Rendlesham Forest itself, the Cosford Incident from March, 1993, the Cash-Landrum sighting from 1980, the Lonnie Zamora sighting from the 1960’s, and the Phoenix Lights, perhaps.
There are many more incidents, but those are what come to mind. When one gets into the MoD files there is more. If we can get more from the AATIP program other than the three videos provided, we can learn more. When the Pentagon has spent over 22 million dollars of taxpayers’ money over the years, there is a lot more there we do not know. Let’s hope through the US Congressional hearings we can learn more about US UFO incidents that have occurred more recently.
Alyson finished with one last question: If it is determined that UAPs are alien, are humans ready to know this? Nick promptly stated a firm yes and no. There are so many complexities involved that it is difficult to determine, overall. However, such a realization would affect every aspect of our lives. Our lives would be touched and changed, always. Politics, religion, science, technology, personal philosophy, and world view, etc. would be affected.
On the other hand, unless we were faced with a kind of ‘War of the Worlds’ or ‘Independence Day’ type event, would we still have to go to work on Monday. Nick said yes, we would. We’d still have children going to school, there would still be mortgages to pay, pay our bills, an more. So, on one hand life changes and on the other, life still goes on.
Alyson said Nick had just written a thriller called, Blood Brothers. Nick gave his website address, nickpope.net. There, everyone can find his book and his other projects.
The audio of Episode 100, Nick Pope, is available on ADX Files provided by Spreaker.com. One does not need to create an account to log into the website. It is free. Do not forget to follow Alyson Dunlop’s ADX Files, Enemy Within Radio! Please participate with in-show broadcasts. The broadcast length precludes reproduction here.
Written By: Ed Smith
Universal Digest is committed to providing its audience with the most timely news reporting; however, there are times where this is not possible. Concise reporting of historical news occurrences are published, as soon as, is practicable.
The approval of Peter Robbins, Nick Pope, and Alyson Dunlop to publish this article is most appreciated. The transcription from the original audio interview was published with as few edits as possible. The order of content was written to provide the reader with the most concise, accurate, and objective format, as possible.
